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MikeHall
Damp
109 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 6:46:22 PM
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| You can get a pay as you go Vodafone chip for £40 with 1gb of data. Wind speed and direction is 4 bytes max, round up to say a 100 byte UDP message sent once a minute then 1000,000,000 / (100 (Bytes) * 60 (Minutes) * 24 (Hours) * 365 (days)) = 19 years use, then pay an extra £10 top up! |
Edited by - MikeHall on 04 Mar 2010 7:23:24 PM |
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Mikey 14778
Poke It With A Stick
1631 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 9:20:22 PM
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| Sounds great Mike. Just going even further off topic, can you tell me where I can get one of those SIMs, they're not obvious on Vodafone's website ? |
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Simon Fox
Wet
298 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 11:16:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikey 14778
Sorry Iain, I cross posted with you there.
I agree with all that, except the bit about keeping the system on the pole for the windsurfers when the committee boat goes off on a jolly. Given that it might be away doing an open meeting from quite early on on a Saturday, and definitely at 10:30 on a Sunday, I think it might be depriving the windsurfers of their info at just the time they want it most. I'd rather have one system that worked all the time (if possible) than have 2 that were both a bit hit-n-miss.
Apart from that - yes, brilliant !
Not quite sure what you are all plotting here, but good that you are thinking about the dark side!(windsurfers)
Simon |
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MikeHall
Damp
109 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 11:43:27 PM
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| I bought my sim, with a USB modem included, for £40 in a Vodafone shop last summer. I guess they may have withdrawn the deal, but it is worth a try as if you don't download music and video, a gb lasts a long time. |
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MikeHall
Damp
109 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 11:46:55 PM
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Firstly, many thanks to those of you who have read and taken the time to post polite replies to my suggestions. Having reviewed the comments made so far, I am minded to go and see the Rear Commodore Sail with the following suggestions:
1. Reorganise the fleets.
The suggestions of merging fleets without sufficient numbers and merging the fast and slow handicaps seemed to be generally well received once I made it clear that I wasn’t trying to abolish any successful fleets. Most seemed to be in favour of an asymmetric race, although some would prefer it to run at a different time. I would like to see something for the whole club on a Sunday. It is a club, and we are better together, in addition, family members in different fleets will want to sail at the same time. I am therefore going to suggest that Windward/leeward is run alongside the normal races. We do have a big water and even in the current scheme of things you may meet a asymmetric tacking down wind, so it shouldn’t be too big a problem on the water. I will propose than when a fleet ‘hibernates’, it should be merged into the handicap fleet so that any hardy members can continue to race if they want to.
I will also suggest that some short course races are run on Sundays, with coaching for all available, preferably without charge!
2. Average lap time for Handicap races.
This didn’t seem to be at all controversial, so I will suggest this.
3. Controlling the race from the committee boat.
There were suggestions that the committee boat was uncomfortable or that it was unreasonable to ask the fleet representatives to stay out just for a handicap race. I am not sure that our boat is uncomfortable compared to some clubs, and I think that the caterers should be asked to prepare a flask of coffee or tea for the boat to keep people warm. I don’t really think that members of the fleets will regard this at a major encumbrance – most I have met are prepared to help out in any way they can and many like Mikey are often seen doing things around the club that they could leave to someone else. Unfortunately, those who don’t turn up for their duties still won’t, but this won’t be the real reason. For the good of a significant number of non ‘fleet’ members, I would like ask the ‘fleet’ members to make this small sacrifice.
4. Adopt the Grafham system for W/L courses. Mikey suggested we have a better system – then that’s great. I don’t mind which system we use – let’s just get racing together.
5. Scrap our starting sequence... Hmm, I can’t claim to have been too successful with this one, most of you are obviously very fond of it. However, I don’t give up that easily, so let me have another go at persuading you:
Various people made comments on the lines ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’. Generally good advice I agree, but I believe the system is broke.
- If you are a bit late approaching the start line, or you look at the flags with one minute to go, there is no indication that the race sequence has started. When I first joined the club, I went out to a race a little late and reached in towards the committee boat. There was nothing on the masts other than ‘On Station’ and no red plate at the bottom of the mast, so I continued reach in to a point mid line. There were a few Fireballs at each end of the line and some milling about. Suddenly, those milling about luffed and I realised that they were about to start and I had nowhere to go. I gybed too quickly and nearly capsized in front of the line with thirty seconds to go. It should be very clear which race is about to start.
- Someone suggested that the system was easy to operate single handed. I have to disagree with this as at the critical time when a fleet starts you have five actions to do at once. Check the line, sound the horn, raise the red flag, drop the current race number and raise the next one. This needs two people. On the standard system, you have three, check the line, sound the horn and change the flag, which is a single operation if the flags are rigged so that one goes up as the other comes down. One person can do this.
– We don’t actually operate it as per the SIs. As a result, I have missed my start and had to be dissuaded from requesting redress from the race committee. I regret this now, as someone might have changed it had I done so!
- Because the system isn’t standard, it confuses new members until they have found a strategy for dealing with it.
- Less experienced Draycote sailor might be put at a disadvantage when they go elsewhere.
I am sure that those of you with many years’ of experience will find these points difficult to understand, especially if you started by crewing for an experienced helm, but the race start is a confusing and tricky place for a new helm, especially in a single-hander where you can’t get the crew to look out while you sail the boat.
Finally, if we did change, few would notice the difference after a few weeks, but we would be using a standard system that everyone understands.
Please not that I am not making any suggestion as to the separation between races, if we need three minutes to get everyone off promptly that’s fine. It is the flags I am referring to. My original suggestion for five minutes was to give the fleets more separation if we moved to just four. If we have five or more because the Miracles or perhaps the Lasers come out to play, then three minutes would be the most practical arrangement.
I think that’s it so far, please make any further comments as you see fit, and I’ll try to have a word with Tom to ensure that some changes which, from Rich’s comments may be under consideration, happen as soon as possible.
Mike
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skifftim
Quite dry
72 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 07:51:53 AM
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Nice one Mike, I wholeheartedly agree.
Just to add to earlier posts shall we keep the weather system under the weather topic? I have replied to the thoughts about weather info there.
And I would love to see Assym racing on Sunday, partly because Richard and I have just bought a B14 but mainly because I fel a large number of our members are not being served by their club.
Tim
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Mikey 14778
Poke It With A Stick
1631 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 10:52:50 AM
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Regarding sim cards, I should check up as to what is available before putting too much effort into specifying a system that uses one. You're probably right that a suitable sim can be had for next to no money with sufficient bandwidth allowance to last us 20 years. But it would be disappointing to put a lot of effort in and then find that the only option is an expensive monthly contract.
Back at the start sequence, and you are mis-stating the complexity of the current system. It can be run by one person, as it is entirely possible to look down the line and pull one flag up whilst pressing the hooter button. The start number cards can wait for 10 seconds if necessary.
We ditched the system you advocate partly because it's impossible to pull up one flag whilst simultaneously lowering another. I take your point that you can put 2 flags on one halyard, but you'll be doing a lot of flag changing if you do. The instructions for achieving this would not be simple, and it does not lend itself to an easy OD duty.
What I think you are missing here is that not everyone is as conversant with the OD duty as you are. I continually hear it said that it's not rocket science, it's all pretty easy stuff etc. And then there's a lot of fuss because the OD unaccountably failed to time somebody, or stopped one class a lap after another or something. The bottom line is that it's not easy, and if we want a reliable OD service then we should make it as easy as possible.
I would also comment that even after 30 odd years, a lot of people don't even know what their class flag looks like. Again, you might see yours on the start boat with another couple of flags and infer something from it, but most of our members work on the principle that they start 3 minutes after the Freds or whatever, and the whole flag business is a complete mystery to them.
When you go to another club, the start flag and timing sequence are invariably different anyway, so you have to learn the new one regardless.
quote:
I think that’s it so far, please make any further comments as you see fit, and I’ll try to have a word with Tom to ensure that some changes which, from Rich’s comments may be under consideration, happen as soon as possible.
Due process will be observed. There's a lot of things currently under consideration, and the existence of a discussion on the forum involving no more than 10 people should not influence the outcome one way or the other. [Edit] Hmmm, that sounds a bit negative. But you know what I mean, this is a good place to talk about stuff and come up with great ideas, but the proposals still have to go through the usual processes and we can't assume that the opinions are representative just because 3 people agree on the forum. |
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MikeHall
Damp
109 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 12:34:09 PM
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Hi Mikey,
Thanks for the edit - I thought for a moment that you were suggesting that my views counted for nothing! I am not trying to claim any greater rights than any other member to go and see club officer and put some suggestions for consideration. I have posted this message here first, because it is easy to overlook the needs of others when addressing a particular problem, as I clearly did with the currently invisible Miracles, and I wanted to canvass some opinion.
With respect to the start sequence – my real objective here is that you should be able to tell from a quick glance at the committee boat, where you are in the sequence. I am not concerned whether we use cloth flags, hard plywood numbers or a something like a large plastic tomato on a pole (for the fireballs of course), so long as it is clearly visible. I think that putting a red flag up is a distraction, and adds nothing to the party. We should put up a flag (or board or tomato!) for the next class. You have to find and display the right board, so why not display it clearly? Incidentally, I am not too sure that changing the board ten seconds late is a great idea, as has already been pointed out, rule 26 requires the timing to be from the flags, not the hoots.
I agree with your comments about checking what is available on Vodafone etc before doing any work – I use these things in the systems I deliver to my customers, and am very familiar with their annoying habit of withdrawing tariffs without notice. An extra 2gb/month isn’t much use to the man using one a decade.
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Mikey 14778
Poke It With A Stick
1631 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 1:39:07 PM
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quote:
I thought for a moment that you were suggesting that my views counted for nothing!
Yes, it didn't read well. Neither did your comment that prompted it either TBH.
But the thing about the club is that it's full of people who have views, and just because most of them don't air them, it doesn't mean they count for any less than yours or mine. I frequently hear entirely contradictory views being offered at the club AGM, and about 10 people clearly agree with the first and another 10 agree with the second. But both parties can't have what they want, even though both clearly have some support. So the committees, who tend not to be as unbiased as you might like but they're all you've got, get the unenviable choice of trying to work out which alternative will enrage fewest people.
quote:
Incidentally, I am not too sure that changing the board ten seconds late is a great idea, as has already been pointed out, rule 26 requires the timing to be from the flags, not the hoots.
Er yes, but the start number cards aren't flags. Take your timing from the flags and your position in the start sequence from the cards.
But I agree it's not a great system. I just don't think we'll be changing it unless there's a really good reason to do so.
For example, when I was thinking about an automated system using LEDs, I speculated that it would be an ideal opportunity to go back to an alternative flag system, as the automation would make it easier to operate than the current affair. But just going back to a different pile of flags....mmm, no thanks. |
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MikeHall
Damp
109 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 3:51:28 PM
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I am sorry if I appeared presumptuous, that wasn’t my intention.
The actual wording of rule 26 is 'Times shall be taken from the visual signals; the absence of a sound signal shall be disregarded.'
The current 'Pile of flags' doesn't make it clear where we are in the sequence. That is why I am asking for a change, and my personal view is that this is a very good reason. If a reliable automated system can be developed, then all well and good. If not, I would like to see a single flag (or other signal), that I can see from 100 m from the committee boat in any direction, which tells me which start is next.
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Paulr
Soaked
559 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 8:56:12 PM
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My tuppence worth:
I hate the present start sequence: part way through it is not possible to tell where you are because there are no flags flying (just a number which is small with restricted viewing angle)
Raising a flag is also terribly inaccurate, starts should be on lowering.
Possible solution:
Flag 1 up at -6, hoot
Flag2 up at -4,
Flag 1down at -3 hoot
Flag1 up at -1 minute
flag2 down at start hoot
Flag2 up at +2,
Flag1 down at +3 start, hoot
Flag 1 up at +5
Flag 2 down at start +6 hoot
Etc.
Or more basic
Flag 1 stays up and flag 2 goes up and down, i.e. mostly reverse of present system.
Advantages
Possible to tell from1/4 mile away the sequence has started all through the sequence.
Start of flag movement is positive and visible from up to down.
Other changes (possibly alternative)
Dump the mast/ropes and have flags on sticks
Hardware required: broom sticks with flags, short lengths of plastic wastepipe fastened on the boat to put the sticks in when the flags are up. Up/down is less of an issue
Timing
How many starts occur with all people on the start boat looking at the stop watch? Or worse: timing person on the stopwatch and hooter with flag operator following on when they are ready. Existence of the line is ignored.
Use an MP3 player and speaker with clear commentary 30s, 20s, get red flag ready to raise, 10s 5s, 4s etc.
Still have the stopwatch as backup and for timings.
I’d love to see an automated system but I’m not convinced of the practicalities on the water, particularly of any artificial light on a bright summers day (remember those?).
Trying to make people stay out on the start boat will not be popular: it is only necessary for those wanting W/L courses.
Average lap can be achieved from the club house. (presuming people are prepared to record the times) I think we should do it for every boat in every race for PY records but how?
Less than 10% of the starters published in the other thread are by asymmetric boats, although that is a significant number it is still less than the miracles (a start that it was suggested was dropped) and the Lasers.
W/L racing was tried again, starting on November 14th. Is it still supported?
From the results it lasted 2 weekends.
Is Saturday racing included in the turnout stats: I may be being unfair?
I am not anti W/L but I don’t want to reduce even further, the number of people prepared to do OD duties. And I certainly don’t want to dum-down by going to pay and play with professional ODs. The club presently has a W/L advocate as rear-com-sail so I’m sure there is someone putting effort into making it sustainable if it is feasible.
People seem to have missed the most obvious way to improve racing: sail the same boats, its so obvious, agreeing what to sail is the difficult bit but no-one has even mentioned that as a possible solution.
Having said that, when I joined the club and there were far more ‘fleets’ the club was rather clique, good racing but fear of sitting at the wrong table in the wet bar. As for kids in the lounge that was definitely off-limits.
The recent influx has been like a breath of fresh air but when it boils down to it we have a lovely ‘pitch’ at draycote but the most fun will be had if people agree to play the same game rather than a couple playing hockey, several football, some netball and a single batsman and bowler in the middle playing cricket with no one to return the ball. With all complaining about the referee/groundsman.
Is that a reasonable analogy or have I had too much wine?
Finally what proportion of the membership have taken part in this thread?
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skifftim
Quite dry
72 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 10:03:16 PM
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I like the flags being up and coming down, that could work.
Not everyone likes fleet racing it isn't the only way.
The only way you are going to be inclusive is to include WL racing on Sunday and publicise it vigorously, include class racing and have a menagerie race as well. So many clubs do it without all this fuss and we are a large club with some very bright people in it, it will be possible.
Tim
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Iain
Drenched
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 11:56:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulr
Raising a flag is also terribly inaccurate, starts should be on lowering.
Erm, assuming that they are still on a continuous halyard, what's the difference?
quote:
Originally posted by Paulr
People seem to have missed the most obvious way to improve racing: sail the same boats, its so obvious, agreeing what to sail is the difficult bit but no-one has even mentioned that as a possible solution.
Erm, how much extra time will it take me to drive to Grafham? Is there a joining fee? At least it would sort out the overcrowded boatpark with the hundreds of members who would leave!
Too much wine? Erm...
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Edited by - Iain on 05 Mar 2010 11:58:12 PM |
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Paulr
Soaked
559 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2010 : 07:35:56 AM
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Ian,
flag starts up: every one can see it and when it starts to move. Pulling it down is also easier to do efficiently.
when starting from down, is the timing when it leaves the floor (seen from the right position behind the boat), as it goes above the c*ckpit coaming (seen from the side), or above the cabin roof seen from in front. From down to up is about 2.5m? Add to that a pause in the middle.
I dont understand your second point. |
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Iain
Drenched
1537 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2010 : 09:27:43 AM
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Paul
I guess the whole flag thing is slightly flawed as whether talking up or down, do you take the datum point as when it starts to move or it arrives at it's destination? Sometimes you see the flag really crawling up/down the pole...if it's going up I will tend to grab the other side of the halyard as far up as I can and give it a smart yank when the hooter goes. I think we're splitting hairs here...no one is really that good at starting that the OD is going to OCS them because the flag was only 3/4 of the way up/down the pole when thier bow crossed an invisible startline!
My second point...I read your post as suggesting the most obvious way to improve racing at Draycote was for people to all sail the same boats, and I was suggesting that if that was the case, members (including me) would leave in their droves and go elsewhere. Have I misunderstood you?
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Racing at Draycote
