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stumcb
Damp
195 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 12:24:44 PM
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i will be happy to help and support events like that chris. and yes i know there is short course racing on sat, (which may answer my question for advice on get my 2 teenagers involed without breaking the bank.) . i will be quiet and let the debate on W/L RTC resume.......
please can someone post something controversial and get us back on topic
www.claridgeswarwick.co.uk
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Edited by - stumcb on 03 Mar 2010 12:25:19 PM |
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Richard Le Mare
Soaked
688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 1:00:27 PM
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Hows this ...
You prolific posters ... I can't keep up 
Right thoughts ...
How to improve the racing ... this is being looked at to try and find a more appropriate solution given that a 49er sailing against a Tera round the cans for the same number of laps is not ideal.
Several suggestion have been made through out this thread and I would like to throw a few more in the mix.
The handicap fleet used to be split into Fast Medium and Slow ... this has sort of merged into one large fleet and adopted the asymmetrics for good measure.
I would like to see a restructure of this into a more manageable set i.e.
Handicap fleet
Asymmetric that require W/L
To achieve this I would like to :-
Remain with the same start sequence ( sorry Mike but its short, tried and tested and works)
Have W/L running every Sunday
Have average lap timing run to allow 5o5's to race against Tera's, Toppers and Optimists
One thing I do feel strongly about is that the W/L racing needs to be allowed to run for some time. If we 'trial it' as before all that will happen is a few will race when the weather is good and it will not have a chance to get critical mass.
If left for long enough critical mass WILL occur and eventually the W/L fans can have their own fleet and fleet captain.
I am hoping that as we are now the single largest fleet with the most number of races in the club that the sail committee will listen and try to allow this to happen. Not a dig merely a statement of fact that has come from the numbers kindly produced by Paul and Mikey
As Iain rightly says this is all easily achievable with our inland cruiser ... and if Mikey can make the LED array thing, this will need to connect to some sort of timing device, which logically could be a tough laptop that has the race software on as well.
No need to bring laptops back to the club during the race ... hey may be it could drive a wireless remote wind device too.
This is all so close to our reach now, financially, physically and practically that I'm sure, once other club matters have fully settled, can all be put into place firmly planting us in the modern era.
As a side note the fleets would benefit from average lap times too. Why? Well the Flying Fifteen fleet have classic and modern handicaps ... so this could be put into place, finishing the faster boat even if it is a lap ahead.
When we have newcomers to racing when they get lapped by the rock stars, that we do have, can be finished early. This will give them more banter time to speak with the rock stars and learn how to make their boat go.
The down side ... implementation of new idea's and systems to the club that the traditionalists would shy away from. This can be offset by smart OD team selection allowing IT literate to teach the less so how to use the system.
The benefits :-
Everyone's racing is improved
It will be easier for the OD once the hardware is in place
We would have a good weather solution that is reliable and more accurate
Well that's all for now but you can now see my vision, that I am slowly trying to make happen for all the handicap sailors in the club and would like to thank everyone, that has helped make us what we are, by no more than regularly racing, along side the many who make actually things happen.
 426  Erica 
all replies are only my opinion not that of the committee |
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Jeremy Atkins
Damp
105 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 1:21:12 PM
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Keeping up with this forum is exhausting - do some work, or go to sleep for a few hours and there is a day's work to catch up!
As a Solo sailing dinosaur, can I just say that I don't think having an LED system to start the racing would increase my enthusiasm to do OOD - I think it would decrease it. Something more that I don't understand and could go wrong.
It is fairly rare that an OOD gets the basic sequence wrong in terms of putting the flags up and down and making a hoot - there are 3 common problems at this stage:
1. They fire a hoot with one minute to go when they lower the flag (not exactly a disaster).
2. They don't change the start number on the board (again, its usually pretty obvious which start we're on)
3. They use the hooter installed on the committee boat which doesn't have a solid enough connection and you end up playing a symphony slightly later than you meant to do a single hoot (again easily solved by using the other hooters).
I agree an electronic system would tackle these issues, but I am not sure they warrant lots of investment in time and money. I do agree that something that would encourage / make it easier for OODs to time the handicap fleets would be good, but not sure this needs the whole signing and dancing LED system.
As I say, the view of a Solo sailing dinosaur. But if it was a choice between the weather station and an LED starting system, I know which I would chose! |
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Mikey 14778
Poke It With A Stick
1631 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 3:06:23 PM
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Just as an aside then, I see the moderator finally rode over the hill and rescued us from the unsavoury material. Hurrah!
In the future if you spot something you don't like, the forum rules and an email address for a moderator are shown here.
http://www.dwsc.commrich.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2706
I'm afraid there's nothing in there regarding 'posts that are liable to be taken the wrong way' though, so I guess you'll have to live with those |
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Mikey 14778
Poke It With A Stick
1631 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 3:12:56 PM
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Back on topic Jeremy, and I guess the thinking was that it would be easier and less stressful for the newbie OD if the instructions for the start sequence just said "Press the big red button and then sit back and watch the startline for people who are early whenever the gun goes off", than the current ream of stuff. You and I may be perfectly happy with the flags and the hooter and the stopwatch, but you and I are a bit more practised than everybody else.
Although I have to say that I had to be physically restrained from (wrongly) firing a hoot at 2 minutes the other weekend, and I also fell foul of the dodgy contacts on the hooter. So your points are well made. |
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onboardmax
Completely dry
36 Posts |
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MikeHall
Damp
109 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 3:48:28 PM
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Autohoot is used at Henley, and does the job very well. Even if the OOD get the flags wrong, the hoots are in the right place so everyone gets off on time.
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Edited by - MikeHall on 03 Mar 2010 3:48:43 PM |
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robbersdog
Drenched
1427 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 6:18:09 PM
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"Autohoot is used at Henley, and does the job very well. Even if the OOD get the flags wrong, the hoots are in the right place so everyone gets off on time."
Ah, you'll fall foul of that at Draycote though. Timings are taken from the flags going up and down, the hooter is there just to draw attention to the flags. True, most people use t the other way round, but there are sailors at Draycote who will notice flags being wrong! Personally I take timings from the flags. If the flag and the horn are at different times I don't know which is wrong, and the rules tell me it's the flag that give the time, so that's what I use.
Whilst I agree with Jeremy that the current system works pretty well and is easy to use, I also agree with Mikey that if it could be made easier still it could be more appealing to other less experienced members. There is certainly a side of me that doesn't like the dumbing down, but I do see the reason behind it (and I also like gadgets, so it appeals to the geek in me!).
I also agree with Rich about letting it run for a good long time. A few weeks of trying it will tell us nothing. Even if it runs with only a few takers for a year, the next year word might get around and more people will come our way. A two year trial would be the more telling and if you're going to do that you might as well just do it and agree that if it really really isn't working it might be canned. That's always going to be the case anyway so lets figure this out and get it done.
---------------------------
Chris Smith
Flying Fifteen 797
Sailing Photos
http://www.sushidesign.net/
http://www.gs-illustration.co.uk/ |
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Mikey 14778
Poke It With A Stick
1631 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 6:38:14 PM
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quote:
Ah, you'll fall foul of that at Draycote though. Timings are taken from the flags going up and down, the hooter is there just to draw attention to the flags
That's (another) very good point. Although I have a feeling that it's true of most if not all start sequences, not just ours.
And yes, the down side is that we're dumbing down again, and if the electronics fail in the middle of a sequence then there's a fair chance that you'll be unprepared and it will all go horribly wrong. Which is why I just floated the idea rather than being all enthusiastic about it - I'm not convinced either way on this one. |
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Richard Le Mare
Soaked
688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 6:55:51 PM
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I am convinced ... all you really need is a red flag as a back up if the tech goes all horrible. Yes we should have yellow blue and green too but to be honest as long as the red flag goes up on the start hooter all club members will react.
Who's to say we can't rewite our SI's to say "go on the hoot"
All minor stuff in my mind that will need to be finalised but certainly acheivable.
As for making the OD's life easier if we could put all this tech into place the racing would improve (removal of doubt and cacophoney of hoots) OD's just press one button to start and one button each time a boat completes a lap ... how easy is that ... every one wins.
The geekier ones may even queue up so they can get a chance to use it.
So I would say the lights are a fab idea IMHO
426 Erica
all replies are only my opinion not that of the committee |
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rodgerwebb
Completely dry
29 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 7:19:24 PM
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Not being of as technical mind as you all appear to be on this thread.
What exactly is difficult with the current start sequence? The book shows very clear pictures of flags going up and down and when to sound the horn.
if it ain't broke..........?! |
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Richard Le Mare
Soaked
688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 7:39:14 PM
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Rodger totally agree with respect of 'if it ain't broke' ... but given a choice would you rather be in your old leaky wetsuit with no give or a new spangly drysuit that keeps you warm dry and allows you to move.
All I'm saying is if there is an improvement to be made that makes life easier lets get on with it
426 Erica
all replies are only my opinion not that of the committee |
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Jeremy Atkins
Damp
105 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 8:12:32 PM
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Richard
IMHO (just worked out what that means!) I don't think your comparison to a leaky wetsuit and a new dry suit is quite right.
What I deleted from my original post was: The weather station is on dry land and doesn't work - what hope have we for a system floating about on the water.
A dinosaur |
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Simon Fox
Wet
298 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 8:25:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by robbersdog
quote:
and is, of course, more fun when it is windy.
Of course.
No pun intended, just is. |
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Richard Le Mare
Soaked
688 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 9:24:32 PM
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Fair comment Jeremy, poor analogy, but my sentiment of improvement was more the point.
I haven't looked into it in depth but ... I'm sure with a little nouse we could find a offshore yacht solution ... Tacktick have one solution.
426 Erica
all replies are only my opinion not that of the committee |
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Topic |
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Racing at Draycote
